Myths (and Facts) about the Public Interest Career Search
(adapted with permission from “Fact vs. Fiction: Public Interest Careers” published by the Yale Law School Career Development Office) Click on a question for the answer:
1. Is it more difficult to get a public interest job?
2. Are the On-Campus Interviews (OCIs) and the Externship Match private sector events?
3. Is it true you cannot get a public interest job right out of law school?
4. Why do so many students who planned on going into public interest end up taking private sector jobs?
5. Can I get a job with a public interest organization when I have no experience in public interest law or its area of concern?
6. If I work at law firms after I graduate, can I make a switch later to public interest work?
7. But if I work only for public interest employers, can I get a private sector job if I later decide I need to, or want to leave?
8. But don’t big firms provide better training?
9. Can I survive on a public interest salary?
10. What does the CSO do to assist public interest students?
1. Is it more difficult to get a public interest job?
Other than large government employers, public interest organizations tend to have occasional openings and they do not have a lot of extra money. These two facts often mean they do not hire recruitment people, they do not join the National Association for Law Placement (NALP), they do not visit law school hiring fairs, and they may not send law schools notices of their openings. It does not mean they do not want you, it just means you have to find them and go to them. In comparison to the large firm Fall feeding frenzy this seems like a lot of work. However, it is just what a normal job search looks like when you are no longer a law student. It really depends on what type of public interest or private sector job you are pursuing.
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2. Are the On-Campus Interviews (OCIs) and the Externship Match private sector events?
No. Every year the CSO invites over one hundred public interest employers to participate in OCIs and the Match program, but very few participate. This is due to the reasons listed in the answer to question 1 above, as well as the fact that most public interest organizations do not know their hiring needs, or funding, a full year in advance. But the poor turnout is also due to the fact that when many of these employers do come, they suffer from lack of student interest. It is a significant investment for an organization to use attorney time and travel funds to come to BYU for OCIs. If they have only one or two interviews scheduled, it is usually not worth their resources. They will instead ask those two students to see them at their offices and will not register for OCIs the next year. If there is truly a lack of student interest, this outcome is necessary. However, if few students sign up because public interest students do not realize that the OCIs include public interest work, this is simply a negative self-fulfilling prophecy. Several times in the past, public interest employers that have come on campus for OCIs or other events have been disappointed when few or no students have chosen to meet with them. There are several reasons why the CSO does not run a special public interest job fair here at BYU. First, we prefer to incorporate public interest employers into OCIs so that they can benefit from the same technology, timing, and accommodations as other employers. Second, the same reasons (discussed above) that prevent many public interest employers from coming to OCIs will prevent them from coming to a separate BYU Public Interest Job Fair. For many public interest employers their needs can be better met through joint interview programs, such as the Northwest and Rocky Mountain public interest career fairs, which BYU co-sponsors, and the national Equal Justice Works public interest career fair.
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3. Is it true you cannot get a public interest job right out of law school?
No. This rumor gets its start in the fact that U.S. Attorneys’ Offices do not hire right out of law school. They require at least two years of experience. Obviously there are lots of other public interest jobs and most will consider newly minted attorneys. Having said this, there are some highly sought after public interest jobs, typically with high profile national non-profits, where the competition is so stiff a new graduate may have a next to impossible task. This is when the fellowship route comes in handy. Fellowships are a great way to do the work you dream of, or to find a position in an organization that has no funding to hire you. See section 3 of the CSO Public Interest Handbook for more on the fellowship avenue to public interest employment.
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4. Why do so many students who planned on going into public interest end up taking private sector jobs?
Lots of reasons. Some students are lured by the tremendous amount of money in the private sector and figure they will earn a large salary for a few years, then come back to public interest (but see question 6 below for more on that). Some spend the summer working for a firm that seems nice and begin to wonder if maybe firm work really would not be so bad. Some strike a deal with a firm to do a large amount of pro bono work. And finally, many students cannot stand the uncertainty that a public interest job search typically entails. It is difficult to be unemployed in March of your third year when all of your classmates have had their jobs nailed down since December, if not since August. The popularity of fellowships is aided by their earlier acceptances. The lateness of public interest offers, compounded with the rumor that positions are not available, cause those who are risk-averse to jump ship to the very attractive private sector option.
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5. Can I get a job with a public interest organization when I have no experience in public interest law or its area of concern?
Summer job, yes. Permanent job, more unlikely. If you are a 1L looking for summer work, do not worry about this. Try to demonstrate that you have a concern for the underprivileged and have given your time in the past to help folks (animals, environment, etc.). Join the Public Interest Law Foundation (PILF), participate in the Pro Bono Alliance, plan to take LawHelp classes as a 2L, and get involved in service projects offered at the school to gain experience and demonstrate your interest in public interest law generally and your specific area of concern if possible. If you are graduating and have not acquired any public interest experience, you are in a much more difficult position. Unlike a summer job where you can often ride on the facts that you can come for free and you are attending an excellent law school, employers for permanent positions expect a demonstrated commitment.
You have had three years of law school and two summers to show this commitment and if you have not, it adds a burden to your job search. Topic area expertise, however, is often not necessary if you have transferable skills and a public interest background.
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6. If I work at law firms after I graduate, can I make a switch later to public interest work?
It is possible, but several facts conspire against you. First, you grow accustomed to the money. Just as you cannot imagine making $100,000 a year now, after you have made it for a few years you will not be able to imagine making $45,000. You will have “expenses” that seem necessary. Family and friends will tell you that you are insane. You will wonder whether it is fair to the spouse and kids (who, by the way, have been hanging out with other folks who made $100,000 to $1 million). Second, you will then have an uphill battle in actually getting a public interest job. Your resume does not demonstrate commitment to public interest; your experience as a transaction attorney for large corporations does not demonstrate the needed skills or knowledge. Quite frankly everyone is a little suspicious about whether you are serious about the cause and if you will stay. These can all be overcome by making sure you do lots of pro bono work during private practice, maintain and cultivate contacts in the public interest community, and continue to live a simple life . . . but most people working in private practice find it difficult to do these things.
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7. But if I work only for public interest employers, can I get a private sector job if I later decide I need to, or want to leave?
Yes, though the ease of the transition depends on what type of public interest job you have held and how long you have held it. It is obviously easier to get a job in private practice when you can show that your public interest job gave you skills or knowledge that are useful to the firm. Litigators in the public interest often make smooth transitions to private practice. Similarly, attorneys who have developed knowledge of government regulation in an area of interest to a firm often make lucrative career changes. To the extent that your experience is unrelated to your next desired job, and you have been in that position for a significant period of time, you must work harder to change jobs. The issue is not really private versus public, but moving to fields where the skills, knowledge and contacts gained in your work experience are irrelevant. This problem also holds true for changes within the private sector.
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8. But don’t big firms provide better training?
Not necessarily. Big firms typically have an organized training program. Some public interest firms, like Utah Legal Services, are connected to national clearinghouses that do research and provide support on the issues you will handle. Depending on the office they may have budget money to send you to significant trainings. However, many public interest employers have no organized training program, and public interest employers vary enormously in the quality of their training and formal mentoring. Even then, there are almost always knowledgeable attorneys willing to help. Public interest attorneys tend to be willing to work collaboratively because they are not focused on accumulating billable hours. Most attorneys engaged in public interest work want to mentor and teach. Also, big private firms typically do not allow a young associate, or summer intern, to handle the type of work or breadth of work that public interest employers do. In a big private firm, it is quite possible that you would spend several years researching and writing memos. A small public interest organization where you find an excellent mentor and are given significant responsibility may well provide training far superior to anything a law firm can offer.
You should inquire at the interview and affirmatively seek mentors during your employment. And you must ask, training for what? Look closely at the skills and knowledge you are likely to acquire at a large law firm and see if these are transferable to the public interest work you desire. If litigation is your desired skill, learn what litigation skills you will develop at the firm and when. If you develop extensive knowledge of mergers and acquisitions at the firm, make sure this is valuable in some way to your desired service work, and if it is not, consider a more appropriate training opportunity.
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9. Can I survive on a public interest salary?
Only you know that. Can people survive on a public interest salary and lead happy lives? Sure. They do it all the time. This question is enormously dependent on what you consider the essentials of life. Also, depending on your family situation, it may require extra planning. It also depends on the type of public interest work you pursue. Public interest research groups (PIRGs) employ an amazing group of committed attorneys and provide extremely low salaries; however people working for the government in public interest fields will probably start in the forties and can work up to over $100,000. There are even legal services organizations where the supervisors and directing attorneys make a very good salary. Having said this, the comparison to large firm salaries will always be dismal. If you choose this way of life, it is best to stop comparing.
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10. What does the CSO do to assist public interest students?
The entire CSO team works hard to assist students in their public interest employment searches.
Staff
All of our CSO professional staff members are knowledgeable about public interest employment and are happy to individually counsel students in this area. To make sure the CSO is fully prepared to address our students’ public interest needs, it employs personnel who specialize in the public interest career search. Debbi Myers is the staff member responsible for counseling and resources in this area, and she is assisted by a public interest research assistant (a law student and part-time CSO employee).
Employment Opportunities
The CSO:
• solicits public interest employers (to the same extent that it solicits other types of employers) for events such as OCIs, job fairs, and mock interviews
• posts public interest opportunities on the CSO externship and jobs webpages
• devotes separate sections of the externship and job databases to public interest opportunities
• co-sponsors and helps to fund the annual Northwest Public Service Career Fair and the annual Rocky Mountain Government and Public Interest Career Fair
• maintains the Law School’s membership in PSLawNet to allow students to search the public interest jobs database free of charge
• maintains the Law School’s membership in Equal Justice Works to allow students to attend the annual Equal Justice Works Public Interest Career Fair and Conference and to access the members-only content about public interest work free of charge
Public Interest Education
The CSO:
• will coordinate for the first time in Winter 2006 a separate lecture series devoted to government and public interest jobs (half of the speakers in the Fall lecture series are always government or public
interest employers)
• publishes and distributes the Public Interest Handbook to inform students about public interest opportunities and resources
• includes pages devoted to public interest career information on its website
• provides topic-specific resource lists, including one that provides public interest resources
Why do we have this strong commitment to public interest? Because the J. Reuben Clark Law School believes in the importance of this work, because most students work in the public interest during at least one of their summers, because the CSO is committed to helping students find careers in the field of their choice (from public service to private practice and beyond), and because students who choose to pursue public interest employment often need more assistance because public interest employers are usually not able to do as much recruiting as other employers. Please stop by the CSO for help with your public interest career search!
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